|
Alex: Susan Cowsill has lead a rock and roll life, without even trying to. Her Dad decided that she and her Mom should join her brothers in the band that became The Cowsills, whose biggest hit "The Rain, the Park and Other Things" is one of those indelible '60s pop hits. She floated through California during the '70s in the orbit of Jackson Browne and members of the Eagles, worked on and off on a career, then the '90s fell in with the proto-Americana group The Continental Drifters, and eventually spun off on her own. Really, though, it's more accurate to say, that she has stayed busy singing and performing that whole time, because career requires a deliberate process, something she says has rarely been the case. Here's part of my conversation with Susan.
Song: The Rain, the Park and Other Things
Alex: So, since we've last talked, and it's been a long time, you got into the game. You're a podcaster now.
Susan: How about that!
Alex: Tell me about The Cowsills podcast
Susan: Oh gosh I would love to because it is seriously one of the funnest things I've ever done. Well just a quick backstory. Obviously The Cowsills are the band that never breaks up, they only take little breaks and then somehow get back together. And the last time we did it . . . in our world quite successful. We're on a classic rock tour once a year. It's pretty much the main one you would want to be on. And from that just re-invented a little mini-Cowsill career again.
Alex: Cool Good for you
Susan: Yeah it is. And so with that we actually wrote all new songs and made a brand new record. Because we wrote the songs, we're under no . . . let's just say we've been here a long time and we make music to make music. We always have, so _____. But along with that, as we know we have to reinvent ourselves as musicians because selling records and playing in concerts is not a viable way to make a living anymore, so I brought, or somebody brought up - and I knew what it was - a podcast but very honestly my brothers were like "What the he** is that?" I'm like "It's like a 'Wonderful World Of Disney' on the computer. It's just a TV show on the computer, guys. Remember when Disney came on first in black and white and then in color OMG" Same thing, only on computer. It's a radio show on computer really, but - until you cross over into the visual podcast land. But anyway, they got hip to the stick and we got on it and we're actually kind of doing well in podcast land.
Alex: Yea, good for you.
Susan: Like literally Alex, it was really weird because I haven't been on a chart since I was a kid. I didn't even know they had charts. You know the old Billboard, Cashbox, Record World that was . . . some children read Dr. Suess, I read Cashbox, Record World and Billboard. And I knew which one was more important. And I knew if I was in one and not the other. It just didn't matter. (laughs) But on the podcast, we got this little email that said 'Apple Podcast'. You've come in on our Hot 100 at #43.' We're like - we don't really know what that means - but we think it's good.
Alex: Yeah, good for you.
Susan: I know. It's been super fun. I think we have . . . we didn't know what we were doing and we do it on ZOOM, so we're like the Brady Cowsills. The Brady Bunch Cowsills and we do it that way because it's easier to control ourselves. But it's also cool because we tape them all and we are going to have visual versions of them. It's really been cool. We're really lucky cuz everybody tells us - we just - everybody just says "Yes," because the said truth of it is that they still think we're little kids and you don't tell kids "no".
Alex: Right
Susan: So even - we just interviewed Miami Steve - Little Steven.
Alex: Well good for you.
Susan: He said "Yes" ! So anyway, it's super fun. And I always wanted, you know, I always wanted a TV or radio show, something. So it's cool, yeah.
Alex: I also imagine it's got to be nice to find a project to do with your brothers that gives you a reason to just talk to them. I mean I know ya'll are close but still
Susan: Nooooo
Alex: Not that close
Susan: No, we are close but if we didn't have a commonality - known as that jig - because that's the only way we've ever hung out. We don't know how to just hung out, you know. So, once a week, we get to see each other and play producer and we have wacky little segments called - like one called Paul Pufferfish where Paul comes up with little known facts that nobody would believe. We have 'I Got A Gripe' all these cute little . . . we have brother John, who's a famous musician in the Beach Boys, and he has an episode with us called 'Where's John?" And we'll remote out with John where the Beach Boys . . . in fact we happened upon in on our first episode and he was having a beautiful day off with the Beach Boys on a boat on an island. I mean really. So it's really been cool and it just keeps our faces out there. I don't know.
Alex: And I would imagine, you know, one of the beauties of podcasts is you find the people who care about that thing. And so it's a way for those who have cared about The Cowsills to really feel plugged into you in a way that they couldn't when they were just seeing you live occasionally. When you came to their town - they're excited. Now, there're excited when you come to town but they are also listening and connecting to you on a - what is it - weekly basis.
Susan: Yeah. It's hugely that way. So we're before "Oh my god the TV Guide said The Cowsills are going to be on Kraft Music Hall tonight, yea, we can watch them walking around and talking. They can talk to us. We talk to them. We have questions and answers. We say Roger from Winslow wants to know and Roger gets all . . . you know . . . it's interactive thing. Yeah I agree with you and look we love our fans. We're just kind of geeky that way, you know.
Alex: It would seem like that after the money part - which actually no longer exists - the two best parts are #1 the singing part with people you like singing with and the other is the connection with people that comes as a result. And if you can get that without having to go to their city, woo hoo.
Susan: It's pretty bad ass. Trust me. Every Thursday we sit down and whoever is ______. We feel like we have desk jobs. It's hilarious. And we're talking to syndicators on radios. They want segments of it. Clips. And that's mailbox money. That's that's where it becomes - as old people - we can hang our hat on, you know. I like to say I've never seen a late night talk show with three hosts. I like to say that. Hey look, anything can happen anymore.
Alex: We're here today to talk about Christmas music.
Susan: Yes, because we love Christmas.
Alex: Christmas music. I know that you not only have made it, I know as a singer, as a person who harmonizes almost reflectively . . .
Susan: Harmony turrets
Alex: . . . that music is right up your alley. Am I right?
Susan: You are more than right and not only that - I'm from New England, the land of Christmas - we think we invented it. My mother on her . . . when she passed away I received all her worldly goods and there was a crunched up cardboard box that said 'Barbara Cowsill Christmas Animal' on it that had all the decorations in it. So I come from a pretty big Christmas Fan house. My Mom - we had a hi-fi and she was 24/7 running those - that thing was hot. Like overheated hot. You remember lying next to it, feeling like it was a combo music thing and heater. Christmas and . . . whew it's all about harmonies and . . . yeah I could go on.
Alex: Do you have song - particularly versions of songs - that stand out to you as the ones that are Christmas in your mind?
Susan: Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. Like, so, as I stated earlier, my Mother was a hi-fi phobe, no a phan, whatever the opposite of that is, and she was . . . I mean we had them stacked. You remember when you would stack 'em and they would drop? We'd get home from school and she would have a stack just ready to go and I knew she was playing the all day. But I latched onto a few that then used for my kids that was their main one of that version. So we will start with Nat King Cole's "Chestnuts." I mean that beginning. All the strings and then when he just comes in and goes 'chestnuts,' that's it. That's just it. The opening line of "Chestnuts" with his voice is my favorite. Bing Crosby's "Do You Hear What I Hear" only.
Alex: Interesting
Susan: Yeah, don't want to hear . . . I don't want to hear any other sing it. And I love, don't get me wrong, but I don't want to hear Andy sing it. I don't want to hear Nat. I don't want to hear Johnny. I want to hear Bing. "Said the little boy to . . . " I want to hear him say 'boooy' That's it for me.
Alex: I can hear it right now.
Susan: It's so crazy and look even my step-daughter, who isn't my step-daughter anymore because I adopted her last year, my first non-bio child, but my first, I made a Christmas tape for her for when she would go to sleep at night and play it. Oh my kids, all my children, from December 1st, actually November 26 if you want to be honest about it. Every night in their rooms they have music. My kids - and her thing was if it didn't open up with [singing some notes] - she's be like "Ahhh." She'd start crying. So that's kind of how it is around here. So also now, speaking of Mr. Williams, and I have a really cool trivia thing to tell you about The Cowsills and Andy Williams that just came in this week, but Andy Williams "Most Wonderful Time Of The Year." Nobody else, right?
Alex: Yeah that’s the one.
Susan: That's the one. And there's been plenty. No. It's like no, no, no, no, no.
Alex: Andy Williams trivia. Tell me.
Susan: OK We just got an offer from Branson and God we love these things more than anything. You know the beauty of being a Cowsill is you can be every version of who you are. I can be . . . It's just an amazing, wonderful lease on life that we get as artists. We can go from the grooviest, the coolest, the funkiest, the most Americanaish, right on up to what I'm about to tell you. Which is, and we're taking it, an offer to play at the Andy Williams theater, to do a Christmas variety show with the Lennon Sisters.
Alex: Amazing
Susan: Six weeks. From November to December next year. I'm getting chills up my left side. I will invite you down for a weekend. You will have to come be a guest. I don't even know what it means. I . . . Branson is a funny place. We've done a couple shows there, but does that not just fill you with . . . I'm reading the . . . old time variety show. Cowsills at the top, Cowsills at the end, sprinkled throughout. It's like - where's Wayne Newton when I need him - we used to do these Kraft Music Halls and usually a Christmas, holiday one because we were a family band. And it's like . . . I can't . . . the Lennon Sisters! Are you kidding me? OK that happen. Different versions. OK contemporary versions of an old song "Baby Please Come Home." U2 Love it.
Alex: I would not have expected that from you.
Susan: Me either, but I just feel like when I hear it and sing it, I feel like he's in it. And I think that's interesting. I wouldn't think Bono would be in the Christmas way. And to convince me of a Christmas song that I have a particular liking to, that's rough to begin with. That's my one kind of . . . No wait, didn't Don Henley do something that was nice, he did a "Come Home For Christmas" that was OK but it starts bugging me. Nothing personal.
Alex: Hey I want to ask you about a version. That you recorded a version of the Carpenters "Merry Christmas, Darling" with Debbie Davis on last year's 'Oh, Crap It's Christmas Vol. 2'
Susan: I sure did.
Alex: So tell me about that experience and your affection for that song.
Susan: That song is my all-time favorite Carpenter Christmas song and I happen to do Carpenter Christmas so I know what I'm talking about. I mean it's the hit, but it's the one that sits in my soul that makes me feel that one way, you know. The experience was hard for Deb and I because it was Covid time. And to be very honest, and I don't know any other way to really be, I was struggling greatly in the Covid/election world/life, changed me forever unfortunately. You are looking at and talking to a different person Alex. But, just the same . . . so when Deb couldn't do her Christmas show, which I attend and sing with her at every year because we are kind of Christmas animals together, she came up with the idea of making the Holy Crap Christmas record instead. And I didn't want to do it. First of all, we were Coviding and I uh-nah I'm an Outer Limits/Twilight Zone generation kid. I know what's going on here and I'm not leaving. Okay. But I also don't know how to say no. A full sentence is No. In rehab and I went down to class one day there's a big chalk board and it says "Today's Class - No is a Full Sentence." And I fail miserably. I quit drinking but I did not get that one class down. No is not still a full sentence for me. And so I said yes. And God Bless Debbie Davis because she had a very - I told her you're not even going to recognize me. This isn't cool. I shouldn't be out and I shouldn't even be with your friends but we went with it. She kind of sprung the version on me. So the whole thing - quite honestly - was - God I don't know how she did it but we pulled it off. And it's such a beautiful song. I haven't really heard it this year. And it was a frozen kind of moment. I hate to report that but like I said, I couldn't give you a different story than that. Ridiculous. I know - we don't talk about it - but friends don't have to - but I think I might have freaked her out pretty good. Cuz I was not me, man. I know how to fake being me now, post (chuckle) post-Covid. I know how to behave now. I'm really good at learning that when something gets wacky and I'm like, "Whoa, I got to rein this in." But I didn't then.
Song: Merry Christmas Darling (Susan and Debbie)
Alex: I tell you one of the reasons I wanted to ask, besides that I really like it, is also I wonder if you can help me get a handle on Karen Carpenter. Because I always appreciate her voice, and she's a beautiful singer, but I never feel like I know who she is. Like even before I knew you, I could hear your voice and I felt like I knew you from just hearing your voice. I can hear Debbie Davis and I feel like - and before I knew Debbie - I felt like I knew
Susan: OK I'm following
Alex: And even at the time, if what I thought I knew was wrong, the fact was you could hear a voice and feel like you could know who this person is. And I was talking recently to Jim McCormick about this. We were talking about this with country music and like you her Randy Travis and whether you know Randy Travis or not, you feel like you know who that guy is from hearing his voice. And when I hear Karen Carpenter's voice, I still don't know who that person is. And so I find them all beautiful, but I find there's always an absence in the middle of these beautiful songs for me. And I figure, you as a singer, will be able to give an angle on Karen if anyone could.
Susan: Well I think it's kind of interesting that we are having this question come up and this observation on the heels of discussion of this version of this song. Because for me, and I haven't heard it recently, I'm going to be freaking out when I do. Because I was disconnected. So how interesting is that. But I will tell you my observation . . . I was disconnected because I couldn't connect to ANYTHING. And poor Deb. She was like, "Girl this is what you need because we're Christmas." And I'm like "No, normally you're right, but that's just indicative on itself." If Christmas can't do it, nothing can. But your Karen observation and my observation of your question is the following. Some of us can't help but wear our hearts on our sleeves as much as we may try. And tragic . . . um I don't want to say . . . so here's what I think. It's that disconnect from herself and her tragic view and whatever was going on inside that beautiful body, brain and mind and soul, because we all are . . . I mean primarily . . . was what you are hearing is her wall she had to have. Now ironically she penetrated that for most with just the sound of it. But I promise you that you might not even know, that it's working on you anyway. Even with your observation. Does that make sense to you?
Alex: Yeah
Susan: OK So look, the linearness on Karen's deliver is like if you were a social worker you'd sit there and go "You in the office. Let's talk. What's wrong here. You are flat-lining here, lady." You know "On Top Of The World Looking Down On Creation" I don't believe you, not one word of it, but I like the way it sounds and I'm rolling with this. But you are not the happiest girl in the whole U. S. A. I would love to hear Karen try to deliver "Shine On Me Sunshine ____"____ "zippy do da day." It's like no, it wouldn't have worked. But her soul depth can not be denied.
Song: Merry Christmas Darling (Karen Carpernter)
|
