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David: We have just amazingly guests today. I know a lot of you are listening were fans of this group when you were just youngins' like me. I'll never forget "The Rain, the Park and Other Things" being on the radio. When it was a hit, I had just turned nine. Seeing them on TV so many times, three top 10 hits, great, great albums. Greater than the critics ever thought, but you know the critics are idiots. They're still going strong. They have an album coming out in a couple of weeks called Rhythm Of The World. I've heard it. I love it. They're on Omnivore Recordings being labeled as IPO compilation, so their label mates for mine, which is . . . I'm beyond thrilled about that. Yeah, so all these years still going strong, possibly stronger than ever and still doing a lot of live performances. And I can't wait to see them. I'm sure some people watching have already done so, but, anyway, without further ado, would you please give a huge welcome to Bob, Paul and Susan. The Cowsills.
Everyone: (claps) Hello
Bob: Paul put his green screen up and I put mine down.
David: You guys see the robot? Yeah they're . . . the robot's definitely compatriots of yours from back in the day.
Susan: Well what's cool about that robot it is he belongs . . . he belongs to Bill Mumy who, I mean that doesn't belong to him, but our brother is in a band with a Bill Mumy so that's pretty cool. And does he really have the voice of robot?
David: Yes he does
Susan: Very exciting.
David: I wish it was mine but it's not.
Bob: Mark, we have to acknowledge the T-shirt. (Note: Mark is wearing a yellow t-shirt that says "We need more COWSILL") We have to acknowledge the t-shirt
Susan: Yes Mark
Bob: I'm gonna need more cowbell . . . Cowsill - Cowsill I almost said cowbell.
Mark: I can't take credit for it. I happen to see somebody online somewhere had it. It was a little different. It said 'forget cowbell, I'm gonna need more Cowsill.' But I said "You know what, if you know the joke, you don't even need the words 'forget cowbell.'" You got to know how good that is. And I got to tell you, I know that we already mentioned the new album coming out - we'll talk about it a little bit later on the show - but I had a vision today that I talked to Lauren Michaels, because of the new season of SNL and we're gonna have Christopher Walken . . .
Susan: Stop it
Mark: . . . is going to host the show and he's going to say "Guys I'm gonna need a little more Cowsill"
Susan: You just read my mind Mark
Mark: And people are saying "What you mean cowbell?" and he goes, "No ladies and gentlemen the Cowsills." And you come out and you play "Rhythm of the World" or whatever song from the new album and I just lost it. I said that's genius.
Susan: Are you for real? but I'm just gonna . . .
Bob: Mark and Paul, Paul this is Paul this is your guy. This is right up our alley. I'm serious. That is beautiful.
Susan: I want to say that when you said - when I'm looking at your shirt, I am sitting here on my porch going 'would it be hilarious if Christopher Walken could do a little snippet and go more Cowsill'? That's what I thought and then you launched in. That's hilarious. I guess I'm going on Saturday Night Live.
Mark: But anyway, we got to try to make it happen because I read somewhere with the new season - with all the new comedians are trying to get on - they're also don't have a full idea of musical guests.
Susan: That's amazing.
Mark: What better way than to have one of the all-time iconic skits with more cowbell. Walken say, I mean - 'I'm gonna need more Cowsill' And everybody go "Wait a minute you the line wrong" and he goes "No ladies and gentlemen the Cowsills."
Bob: Mark it's beautiful
David: Awesome. More Cowsills and more milk.
Bob: Hey, believe me, we're after the milk people too. We want another campaign. Show our old commercials and then show us today. We did drink milk.
Mark: And look how great you look. That's fantastic.
Susan: Well we're still here anyway.
Mark: We're coming up with ideas. We're going to have to put these things and play. I'll be in touch. I'm going to start poking people.
Susan: And it all started with one little t-shirt.
Bob: We'll only give you a third assignment. "We Can Fly" to the airlines OK. We're done, thank you.
Mark: OK that's it, done.
Susan: "Some Good Years" for the tires OK I'm done.
David: I have, I have to commend you guys though. To be able to put out amazing albums like We Can Fly and Rhythm of the World in that greater time span, is it is truly phenomenal and you guys deserve all the accolades that hopefully you're going to get.
Susan: Thank you, thank you very much
Mark: I do . . . I do wanna make mention, happy birthday Barry. Heavenly birthday
Susan: That is today you guys.
Mark: So that was something I wanted to make sure. And also Susan a little, a little thing . . . last week I was at a record store and I was goofing off and I go through the 45s and I pulled out of 45. I thought it looked great and I brought it home. And then the other night I was watching this podcast you guys are on last year - MediaPath podcast - so I wanted to I wanted to see your personalities and see just exactly what I was dealing with when it comes to material issues live. And I, you talked about your passion and love for Glen Campbell
Susan: Oh yes
Mark: The one, the one 45 I picked up last week
Susan: Oh my god
Mark: This is what I picked up. "True Grit" in singing. It's backed with his version of "Hava Nagila"
Susan: Are you serious? Who knew.
David: My tribe - yeah!
Mark: But how Oh I mean how cool is that but I went 45 shopping I picked up one and then I listen to your your impassionate love of Glen Campbell on that podcast.
Susan: So I'm just gonna tell you guys something - that I think this whole podcast has a little shroud of the supernatural all over it.
Mark: A little bit
Susan: Paulie's got something
Paul: Well I just wanted to let you guys know that, and I don't know if this is what you were referring to, but Susan actually gave Glen Campbell his Grammy, the year he got that Grammy
Bob: Yeah we represented that year.
David: Wow is that available to see anywhere - to see anywhere?
Susan: Well here's what happened y'all. With the day Glenn died, I was super sad like I said, I always felt like I should take care him. Follow me around. I don't know what. The day he died I got a text or something somebody had sent a picture out of a 16 Magazine which was all of us, Bob, Paul and me were all up on stage. Paul is lifting me up. My tights are for everybody to see and I am in the process of giving Glen Campbell his Grammy to "By The Time I Get To Phoenix." Which, I didn't remember. Which, that tied it all in for me.
Mark: Well I'll tell you what, I had that I definitely had to do my homework for the show, not only because I've been a long time obviously, but when I watch the documentary that is very well-known now Family Band with Paul got on Dick's case about not doing your work. I said Paul could be a tough one so I better I better be prepared for this for the show so Paul, I'm prepared. I've done my work.
Paul: Very good Mark. I'm the scary guy
Mark: I've done my work. We had somebody who just wrote in, wanted to know the history behind "Ask The Children"?
David: That's my brother Joel. Hi Joel. Bob, you maybe you probably don't remember this, but one time at a Dodge game, you - I had interviewed you for Audities magazine back in '95 -
Bob: I remember it well.
David: And then a week later you are at the Dodger game and who would be sitting right in front of you but my brother Joel. And he heard your name mentioned, and he turned around, "Bob Cowsill?" And there he was.
Bob: I remember all encounters like that at Dodger Stadium because that may have been the only one like that. (everyone laughs)
David: Joel was asking about "Ask The Children"
Bob. Absolutely Totally, no one ever did that again in my life, okay?
Susan: OK so the question is about the song "Ask The Children"?
Mark: It said, "Can you tell me the history behind it."
Susan: I think . . . Bob would you know that? I actually know the guy who wrote it, Artie Wayne, but Bob how do you do you know anything about . . . I was pretty little
Bob: Yeah, we were just looking for material and always had a relationship with the publishing companies that brought a songs to record. And "Ask The Children", I mean I clearly were looking for something for Susan and in this band of ours and we came up with that. And she did such a great vocal. I think I did part of it with her.
Susan: You did, you did.
Bob: Co-lead vocal by her and me and a really crispy and young. Yeah we loved it. That was a pretty song.
Susan: I loved that song. I've . . . I mean look, when you're a little kid and you're trying to fit in I've had like two songs that I could actually feel like I could express as a child.
David: Bob I want to ask you about one of my favorite Cowsill songs that most people don't even know. I wish they did. 'What's It Gonna Ge Like" I don't know if you remember but you were doing a dinner showed up in a restaurant in Venice and I was there. I was trying to impress the woman I was with, so I asked I said 'Hey Bob can you play "What's It Gonna Ge Like" ?" and you played like the first four notes and said, "I don't know the rest." But you probably did know. You were on JODA first
Bob: That was like, look I was a 13-year-old on Indian Avenue up in my bedroom and pretending I was worldly. "I been almost every where . . . " Listen to that. I'm like 13, come on. And so . . . But it was the music. It was just the music. And you always had to say something. If you were 13, I guess I better say something. It was nothing serious.
Susan: Is that the one that kind of has the Byrds guitar, Bob?
Bob: That's it. "What's it gonna be like I don't know what it's all about" "I've been almost everywhere" Nowhere!! You've been nowhere.
David: I was watching the song and it came up on a compilation with a band for the Lincoln Park Zoo. Did you ever meet those guys?
Bob: Lincoln Park Zooers were just start a group they were trying to launch and they and we were already famous by then and this was stuff we recorded before we got famous, that they put on this album. It was very good. It didn't get us famous.
Susan: It was a good idea.
Bob: And they took advantage of our fame at the time to launch this new group by taking our old stuff and put something interesting along with that they were doing on the album. We have nothing to do with it.
David: I bet that's a common tale. I remember when the Osmonds got really big, Uni re-released one of their singles had bombed originally. And it bombed again, so usually that doesn't work.
Bob: Well usually when you are dropped by the label, the labels probably correct. So you take that . . .
Mark: Well guys I gotta ask you, like early on when you started, the Bill, Bob, Barry, John, that was the four guys. Forming a band and doing their thing. Paul, why were you involved early on? Like why wasn't it Bill, Bob, Barry, Paul, John.
Paul: Well you know I'm the middle child and there were three above me and three under me and I was just like I was moving in and out of that whole family. I was trying to go unseen. And I was so into sports. I was just I thought I was destined for that life honestly. You know and but at the same time when it was Barry and Bill and Bob and John, we were all involved. I mean me and my brother Richard would go out on the road with them and stand stage right and stage left in front of them so nobody would harm them.
Susan: Like body guards
Paul: We took care of all the gear and we did that whole you know your thing. But it wasn't like 'hey these guys are the band and then you guys aren't the band but here's what you're gonna do.' This was a family and so everybody in the family, even back that far, had a position - had something to do with it. And so although they were making the music I really honestly never felt like I wasn't making it with them, even though I wasn't with them.
Susan: And honestly Paul to your point at home - and I never even thought of this until you just said it the way you did - cuz my Mom, like you guys did the New York thing and you'd all go, we did the clothes. And I would help my Mom get all the clothes together that was going to go in the suitcases, to go in the van, for Paul to . . . It was a thing like that in those early days. That's interesting.
Paul: I'll tell you what Mark and David, you know I just eventually went up to my Dad and I just said, "Hey Dude, how do I get in this thing?" And he goes "So what will you do?"
David: Hey what sport did you want? Did you want to be a baseball player?
Bob: Oh yeah he was great.
Paul: Baseball and football Baseball and football were my favorites
Bob: But listen here's a little hint of what was going to be because during the time Paul just described, he's the roady, Rich is the roady and there's those guys. Listen we took it on our own, the kids did to get Paul during those days before MGM, before any record label to put them in a white suit. We called him our soul brother and we stuck him out in our show when we wanted to really pump the audience - about halfway through - we'd say, "We're gonna bring up our soul Paul up here." Look, Paul was 11 or 12. He'd do anything we said. And he went out and he started singing "Mickey's Monkey," that was his song, out in front and we're all dressed alike behind him, but he's in a white suit. So we had a blast with this guy from day one. He was going to come in yeah after "The Rain, the Park" and just before "We Can Fly" but he'd been in it all along, in terms of the kids perception.
Susan: Look we were staunch Micky Mouse people. We would dance with those people. We sang with those kids. Paul would lead us.
Mark: When when you guys are playing a lot because up in the northeast you play a lot - in '64, '65, '66 - the compilation albums came out before you're The Cowsills album come out in '67, you guys are playing a lot. Who was, who was booking who is booking the gigs? Who were your roadies? Were you carrying all your own stuff and setting it up? Cuz looking up the schedule I saw on line somewhere, someone had a day-to-day thing - you were doing quite a lot for a very young band.
David: And I heard you always love love to set up early sorry . . .
Susan: Ha Ha Ha
Bob: Mr. Flynn Hey listen, it's true we loved to this day, we could live on the road and have pretty much done that a number of months in a row. Look Dad was booking it. We were easy to book. I mean look, here's how Dad booked it. He got permission to let us set up in the middle of the student housing in Brown University and perform. And then we got gigs at Brown University. He was innovative and then that way he was an entrepreneur that way. And we were so good. Look that's an observational comment, not ego. We were good young and I don't know why there isn't more footage, more pictures or cameras of all this action since we're that good, but that's not how you did it back then. Like the Beatles we knew how to sound like anybody we attempted we could cover that group and sound like them. If "I Feel Fine" was a hit on the radio wherever we're playing that night all the kids know we're playing "I Feel Fine" - - boom end of discussion. So they found us early. We were one of the first tribute bands to the genre during the genre.
David: Wow how did you get your deal with MGM?
Bob: Artie Kornfeld basically Artie was our producer. We met at the Mercury Phillips who's gonna drop us after a few attempts. Artie's incense 'how can you drop them. These guys are good." We bonded. He's our George Martin. And he left with us. He wrote - with Steve Duboff - "The Rain, the Park, and Other Things" for us. They say that very short time. Took us into the studio, on his money. We have no label, no money, recorded it with the brothers as you hear it except just after we left the studio - between that and MGM - they're going to put Mom in are failing teenage boy rock group OK. The boys have had four labels. The boys have had four releases - something's wrong with the boys. Probably because they look like every other rock group of the day, which is true. Mom comes and we got to go back to the studio put on "The Rain, the Park." She's petrified. She's never recorded. She's out there doing the melody of the song and I'm right behind her doing it with her. That's her and I doubled on that part to get her through it and then mom is in the band. They took the whole package to MGM - through Lenny Stogel - a man that Artie was already was associated with and they got behind it. And this was gonna happen.
Mark: Now so your mom wasn't originally on the track when you recorded it? They d . . . did you, did they bring her in after the fact to add harmony?
Bob: We had to go back into the studio and get her on that record. Geez I didn't think I don't know why 'hey, let's give her the melody' right? Of the chorus, but her voice was high and her and I together - my voice was high. And we had to be legit. We had to be legit. We had to get her on it. We couldn't just tell people stuff.
Mark: And what wonderful harmonies you were doing. You were already doing that as a four piece. Just to add Paul, Susan and Mom, that's just makes the spectrum go like this (makes a widening motion).
Bob: That took the vocal stack and sent it as far as our vocal stack could go.
David: Probably the greatest strength - I mean you got you and Bill were amazing songwriters - and of course Kornfeld and Duboff but I think the greatest strength of your songs is the arrangements. They are like no other.
Susan: That was all Bob and Paul
David: And "The Rain, The Park and Other Things" might have a greatest arrangement of any pop song I've ever heard. Who are you were arrangers of that time? and how did you get so lucky?
Bob: I'm sure Artie was associated with Jimmy Wisner. Jimmy Wisner was an arranger of The Wiz. He did Spanky and Our Gang. I mean if you listen to "Sunday Will Never Be The Same" and "The Rain, the Park" it's the same day and same group. It is.
Susan: Bob, can I ask you, who arranged the vocals on that?
Bob: Well me and Bill did all the vocal arrangements. Yeah, we did that. No one ever, ever, ever spoke to any of us about vocal arrangements. Ever.
Mark and David: Wow
David: On "The Rain, the Park" you had . . .
Bob: No, we had that all set. We had a knack for it. Basically we did - and to this day "Rhythm Of The World" should we do it? Seems like a lot. Well do it anyway and later we won't use it if we think it's too much. And we never did never use it. We used everything we ever did.
Mark: As Ayn Rand used to say, "If it's worth doing, it's worth over doing."
David: At that time when you were doing - obviously
Susan: The Cowsill tribal cry
David: The singles are what brought you fame, but did . . . how much did you really care about your albums? Were you proud of them? Were you trying to make a really good album?
Bob: Always we were doing that, but I'll say later, when Bill left, and it's me and Paulie and Barry. We are going to re-constitute ourselves. The II x II and On My Side album, those albums are where it was at. That's the lab. We were really rockin' it in there. The earlier albums, you walk in the studio musicians were there but We Can Fly we're working with Artie Shricklin, Herb Bernstein and Charlie Covello and Jimmy Wisner. So we're working with great arrangers. But they took the gear out of our hand. For II X II and On My Side later, after our career is failing and these records and recordings, nothing about that. You're going in and doing your best with your songs. We've always been about that.
Susan: And it was fun.
Bob: Sometimes you're not, sometimes you get released, sometimes it's going to the library shelf in the family and that's OK too. Just so you do it.
David: II x II is definitely one of the more underrated albums of all time. More people should know about that one.
Susan: Thank you
Bob: We have found great reviews of II x II and On My Side online. People who have come to them lately and gone through it and said "You know what people?" That kind of thing. So that was fun.
Mark: I know we'll mention this at some point, but there's definitely got to be a Cowsill boxset put together of everything.
Bob: You got to get real famous man. You got to be Sinatra, The Kingston Trio.
Susan: Either that or all of us dead.
David: You know what Bob there - the label in England Cherry Red - has been doing a lot of boxsets of bands who are less famous than you guys. So . . .
Bob: Can I say something? Omnivore Recordings themselves our labeled specialize in boxsets. We are not anti-boxset. We have some work to do before that but there is stuff . . . We found our very first 1965 - I'm like 14 and Barry's 10 and John's eight - We found our very first 19 songs we ever recorded in 1965.
Mark: That was my question
Bob: Songs we've written. No one has ever heard any of these.
Mark: Un-released stuff. That was another question.
David: I'm going to be a fan boy now and say I want to hear that stuff.
Bob: You should hear it. I looked up John Mayer up online. He did "Bright Lights, Big City" a Jimmy Reed's sung it and I go "Pretty good" but the version we did when I was 14 is better and in my opinion, it's just my opinion. We were with Johnny Nash at the time, just before that. So he's turning us on to Jimmy Reed and all these songs. These were our black years in NY. JODA was a black label. The writers were black, the musicians were black, producers were black and we were the only white kids in the mix. We played at the picnics. It was fantastic.
Mark: How did that happen?
Paul: I was just going to say and I forgot what I was going to say so sorry
Susan: Waited too long. Put your finger up there. How did that Johnny Nash thing happen, Bob?
Bob: Well that whole New York scene. When we were going to New York and Johnny Nash and the whole . . . It was incredible. That happen because we got on the Today show. This writer came - we were playing at Dorian's in Newport, Rhode Island. We're a club band. "Man look at these guys, they're good." Bring them to New York and we got on the Today show. That led to JODA. That led Mercury/Phillips. That led to MGM and it all led to Rhythm Of The World.
Mark: Which is just . . . We've interviewed a lot of artist from the 60s and things like that don't happen today anymore. But back then it was like yeah tonight we were playing this little club and then tomorrow we were signed by whatever. Or we just walked into this major label, handed them a tape and they're like 'oh this is great we're going to sign you.' But in your case you were playing and you were doing these gigs and Dorians and someone saw you and you're going to the Today show . That's just mind blowing timing and right place right time with the talented people with hey let's make this happen and things just exploded from there. Just amazing. Amazing stuff.
Susan: The world's too big. What do you have Paulie?
Paul: Well I was just gonna say that you know everything - it's funny - you need to you - what you said Mark about being in the right place at the right time. That's crucial for anybody in this business, you know. They could have the best album ever and they can have it all going on, but the bus just doesn't stop at their corner. And so you're always need to be ready, you know, to happen. It's so crazy how it all gets done but you need a bit of luck.
Mark: It wouldn't come your way, if you guys weren't talented, either. I mean if you had sucked that night at Dorian's, someone would have walked out of there and went 'Eaaah" you know. But you didn't, obviously.
Susan: It's a combination of everything, y'all. It's . . . Dick Clark told us once that if we, we stay our path. we stay alive, we stay healthy, we stay just making music because we love it - like we have - if you keep doing that and it will it will eventually come around again. It's a time thing you know. You got to stay alive. But we did.
David: Wasn't it a complete whirlwind for you? I mean it seem like, it seem like every day you had something else going on back in the day. All the TV shows you were on. Was it . . . I mean did you have time to breathe?
Bob: To breathe??? (chuckles)
Paul: It was fun.
Susan: We were little kids and everything . . .
Paul: Yeah, right on Susan. We were little kids and everything that came our way at the time was so exciting.
Susan: It was a blast.
Paul: I mean, come on, we were like really almost hobos. The Cowsill's were from the other side of the track.
Susan: Hello
Paul: All a sudden, this stuff happens and we end up on that side of the track. We really are that side of the track.
Susan: I mean we were growing up, we were, you know, what you're calling really busy. So we're on tour and then we go see this this movie called Oliver and then next job we've got is we get to go to sing with the kid who plays the Artful Dodger in Oliver. Well boy
What a . . . I mean that's our work. That's what we're getting ready to do next so . . .
David: Was that Jack Wild?
Susan: Yeah But we were little kids . . . I mean we we're playing make believe 24/7.
Mark: You guys, you guys, on all the different videos you see from the '60s, you guys always seemed very comfortable in doing what you were doing, It wasn't like you were under a boatload of pressure, although it's a very pressure situation to be out there. Paul always had a great sense of humor. He seem to seem to take over the mic a lot which I think was great.
Susan: I think the later it got, y'all, the more pressure it got. Those early days, we were just you know any time we could get out from under and be ridiculous and have fun and get away with it, it was a good time.. So, stage, TV, it provided that. Later things, you know, things were different you know.
David: One thing I noticed in the documentary, I couldn't believe how many TV shows you were on. Susan - don't take this the wrong way - but you are on more laps on the $10 hooker, let me tell you.
Susan: Tell me about it. Tell me about it. I totally know that and I'm just a lucky girl that was survived whatever was unpleasant about it, which is really - in Lapland - in the one you're talking about - was fairly minimal. And it was more good news and bad news because guys like Johnny Cash and Dean Martin her big and posing men, were some of the most . . . they taught me what - other than my wonderful brothers - like they were a great example of what a real gentleman was. Hello . . . whatever with that
Bob: You know, we were fortunate as a group back then to get those TV shows. Not everybody got them.
David: No
Bob: You only saw a group in person, on a TV show, - I guess that was it - or you heard them on the radio. So the family was embraced - of course Ed Sullivan just loved us until he didn't like our Dad but he loved us - and a Jonathan Winters. Susan named them - Dean Martin and Johnny Cash - who is a great fan - these shows became our videos later in life, you know, because back then you didn't do videos. Again I don't know why if we were that good where's a video of us. Geez I've see World War I videos.
Susan: It wasn't in anyone consciousness. But good point
Bob: Yeah, guess it was conscious, hey look at these kids are good, should we film this? Nah, nah, just look at them. They're pretty good. But it's OK that we love the TV shows and we use them now - even today - as our videos.
Mark: Oh yeah, you wish more things would've been saved from those days. I know there's a whole, there's like a six or seven year period of American Bandstand that was completely lost and gone.
David: No one cared. It's just tragic.
Bob: Hey we'd love that first 20 minutes we did on the Today show.
Mark: That would be good.
David: Susan's fall . . . (phone slips)
Bob: No, she's OK
David: OK Susan
Susan: The cat's doing so well down _________
Mark: Susan, you're in a dangerous hammock. It makes it live. It makes it fun.
Susan: It's Louisiana. Come on you guys, it's very . . . Go Paulie
David: Besides TV you're also of course and 16 and Tiger Beat all the time and this is something you know - you talk about kids who were stars and they were in those kind of magazines and they had a squeaky clean image of course in those magazines. Like some of the other people like Susan Olsen could not stand being Cindy Brady and didn't like that people thought of her that way. Were you guys a bit rowdier, more rebellious than your image? Or were you really squeaky clean good kids?
Paul: We were not squeaky clean good kids
David: Pardon?
Paul: We were not squeaky clean good kids. I mean we were good kids. We just weren't squeaky clean .
David: Right
Paul: That was all brought by Madison Ave. You know and we were we were hungry little kids. We knew that this is what we want. It, you know - like the box set the box - that can't be done right now because we're not done yet. And we have a new album coming out that would have to be a part of that box that we're just now you know putting it out and all that. So you know we have to wait on these things because we've been doing this so long.
Susan: We're not done!!
David: No, it's really NOT over, like I said.
Bob: We were very normal, but like Paul said , ours was . . . back then you could control your image. You can't do that anymore. Certainly back then you can and we did. And who wouldn't wanna be in our family. We're hearing from all the . . . "No, I want to be in your family!" And we're going, "No you don't" "Yes we do." We say, "You THINK you want to be in our family."
Susan: But I mean look,
Bob: But it was a different time
Susan: It was and then so like good kid/not good kid. So we had a level of danger we lived under in our house and we knew it. And yet it did not stop us from pressing the envelope slightly and doing things that we wanted to do, that we shouldn't be doing. Like filming people in the streets of New York and making believe they are on Candid Camera and convincing them of it while we're having some down time. Little things like that, you know, and little pranks that we really shouldn't be doing but we're doing. So, no, we weren't. I think the Osmonds were probably better behaved children than we were.
Bob: Gotta be
David: I would imagine they were, yeah.
Susan: But they didn't HAVE to be as well-behaved as we should have been.
Paul: Our big thrill, when we were kids, was to go out into the Bay we lived in front of and stop the Ferry with our little sailboat.
Susan: Yeah
Paul: Which is totally against the law
David: Speaking of against the law, is this true, I've heard rumors of if this is true or not, was Bill kicked out of the band because you Dad found him smoking pot in a hotel room?
Susan: More or less, not quite that.
Bob: That's the kind of scene that would be in the documentary turned into a movie. It'd be acceptable he found him in a room, NO. He found a little shake and a little tiny remnants of pot in his Riviera car, the Sunday we were leaving for the East Coast to go on tour.
Susan: Bad timing
Bob: That was no ____. So he scooped it all up and brought it into the living room and put it on the living room coffee table, called us all to order and we went down, and said, "This is what happens is what happens when you don't obey the rules." and he threw Bill out of the family and he threw him out of the group right then and there and we all went to LAX without him that morning.
Susan: We piled in the station wagons
Bob: For that show, on that concert, Paul --- I learned Bill's stuff, Paul learned my stuff. There was so many of us on stage it didn't even make the news. "Hey where's Bill?" It's like we all look alike. We could have been the Osmonds for all the audience knew back then. It's just all confusing. But that's what happened and that's why it . . . now but it was a build up to that, but that was the final straw and that's when the collapse took place. Took place at the Santa Monica living room right then and there.
Susan: Remember it well
Bob: The beginning of the end
Mark: What was that Latin band that every time a kid got too old they through the kid out of the band?
Susan and David: Menudo
Mark: Do you think there was a Menudo effect to that where Bill was kind of aging out of The Cowsills because he was doing his stuff and whatever?
Bob: No Father conflict. Father conflict with sons, that would have been building over the years - with all of us - but it became intolerable between Bill and our father.
Mark: Now you want to talk about pressure because you took off and now Bob you had to you had to do all the guitar parts. You've got to sing more songs than you're normally singing.
Susan: You have no idea. That tour was insane.
Bob: We all had to do more. We all had to do more. All down the ladder.
Paul: I learned keyboards on that weekend.
David: Wow!
Bob: We had an act, to pull the whole thing together
Mark: Learn the keyboard
Bob: And you're so afraid of your father . . .
Susan: You do what he says. I learned that Dad means what he says. That's what I learned. And he'd been telling me something for a long time that I was super glad I hadn't pressed.
Bob: Our job is now to rescue the mess that that left behind. And we did it.
Susan: We did it.
David: Good. I know he wasn't the oldest sibling, but he was the oldest sibling in the band. And with strick fathers, I can tell you from my own experience, the oldest child always gets it worse.
Susan: No, he was our oldest for sure. He was . . . anyway . . .
Mark: That's good. That's definitely a turning point in the band. 'Cuz that happened after - what was the next album after Bill - that was . . .
Bob: II x II
Mark: II x II which had a different feel to it. A different Cowsills definitely.
David: Definitely earthier
Bob: Bill's gone. The rest of us are now going to reconstitute and redefine ourselves. And we're going to do it - unfortunately - live and in front of everybody. In public, in the studio with the new release. We're not allowed to go away for a couple years and figure this out. MGM needs a record so we're gonna do this that way. And we're fine with it, OK. We're just fine with most of everything that's happened. We don't pull our hair out. We just go "alright, how do we fix this or how we work within this." Now what are we gonna do. That's all we ever did. Artie's there, Artie's gone. Now what are we doing to do? Me and Bill are going to produce. Oh, it didn't go to #1 - "We Can Fly" - let's get Wes Farrell. Oh he's going to produce "Indian Lake" eeeaaahhh that's so-so on "Indian Lake" We're not going to get along with Wes. Wes is gone. We do "Hair". Oh back to Bill and Bob. "Hair" We're amazed at how well we did inspite of all this interference all along the way.
David: What's amazing is what all you did as kids. How much control you had. How much input you had as kids.
Bob: We were teenagers - artistically, vocally and in the studio - no one could talk to us. They didn't know what to say.
Susan: And Dad did allow that.
Bob: We did fine. We knew what to do.
Mark: Which is just amazing. All this is happening at such a young age. It blows my mind to think about . . . it blows my mind to think there's no book out there on the Cowsills. I'm ready to write a book because . . .
Susan: It's not over yet.
Mark: I know it's not over yet but that's why (laughs)
David: I think what you guys are alluding to is . . . Let's talk about the new album. It's not out there. It's certainly not over yet. And there it is (cover photo pops up). Coming out on September 30th, right?
Bob: Yes sir. September 30th is the release date. A lot of . . . if you google Cowsills Rhythm Of The World , just start scolling. It's popped up with Arabic print and Germany
Susan: Yes, very exciting
Bob: It's going everywhere in terms of getting it on the platform to be listened to and attended to. And this is our moment of truth. It's coming out.
Mark: It's out there. There is already "Rhythm Of The World" out on youtube. And of course that's where I got my Christopher Walken thing, but here's just a little sample from that (Plays clip) Classic Cowsills. I'm telling you. Wonderful stuff.
Bob: We're pretty excited.
David: Alan Peshcoff (???) of Power Pop Records just gave you a tumbs up too. He's listening. If you ever need a new label . . . Naw I'm kidding . . . Omnivore must treat you guys good. I love them.
Mark: Omnivore is a great label.
David: Harold, Dodge, Lee, Greg, if you're watching, we love you.
Susan: Yeah, we love them too man.
Bob: We found a home.
Mark: Let's talk about the new record a little bit. Where did the writing come from, Bob? Everybody, everybody involved in writing of the songs?
Bob: Absolutely. We were together for six summers in a row now. Now one of those summers we decided to start writing together, as the three of us. And it really was a great place to do it because . . . It really got kicked off because we wrote you "Gotta Get Up." And what triggered that was Howard Kaylan of The Turtles every night telling that to the audience. So, you hear that about 50 times every single night and you . . . we go 'you know there's a song there.' Now there must be 40 songs that say 'get up' it's good advice. Anyway, we wanted this, so we wrote that and we realized, "Well that's good." Paul's throwing these lyrics at me and like he took them off the internet. He didn't but this is how quick he was. So we found out each other talents, we got a chance to feed off that summer. And we got into a writing frenzy, we really did. And it's different combinations . . . and then there a couple other songs we'd been wanting to record before this group we were writing. So it's a real 'coming of age' album for us. Even at our age, it truly is. We're thrilled with it.
Mark: Talk about the track "Katrina" a little bit.
David: That track, I have to say, I was crying when I heard that. It's such a tear jerker.
Mark: For people who aren;t in the know, where did that track come from in your heart.
Susan: Go ahead Robert
Bob: Well I had that opening strum which felt like - and this is really weird - but it did feel like something might be offshore threating. (Susan's phone falls again) I have to wait for my sister.
David: The phone it's like it's attacking you.
Susan: It's set still for so long. I'm sorry
Mark: It's good vibrations
Bob: I was gonna get dizzy. And anyway, so I had that and it was a matter of when Katrina happened, and Barry died, as a group we would occasionally say, "Who's going to write this? Who's going to write this?" Cuz you're an artist you're gonna write something I guess. But for years no one did. I finally did. The lyric came quickly first person - I'm not gonna question that - clearly I'm not Barry. But, I went with it. And it really does describe, in my opinion, what happen to him. The wave, and the whole thing at the end, all of it. So, it was a matter of trying to come up with the power of the hurricane, the middle instrumental is just kaos to us. I hope . . . and just the way Russ's drums bring up the chorus is just like you can feel it coming in, we think. So it turned out so well and thanks to Justin Tocket, our engineer, and ourselves, we all produced and arrange this stuff, you know. So it was really a terrific group effort.
Mark: As far as I know, that's Russ. That's Russ, Susan's husband, correct?
Susan: That's right
Bob: So far, so good
Susan: We're going on 23 years. I think we're good.
Bob: Russ Broussard, our drummer, and Mary Lasseigne. Now our most recent recording was back in the late '90s with Global and that had our brother John - who's with the Beach Boys as everyone knows That's the answer to Where's John? - and Robby was our bass player. That was our rhythm section
Susan: Our California section
Bob: Our Global rhythm section. Now this group that you hear on Rhythm Of The World, we've been touring for 18 years. And so developing. So we always wanted to hear what would this group sound like. Line up all of our albums. Who's in the band now? It's just our history. It's OK. So we got this group into the studio and went "Holy Mackrel." Got very excited. Got the songs. Susan had been hounding, her brothers to record. We'd always go "Why?" and she'd go "We should."
Mark: Thank you Susan
Susan: You're welcome
Bob: Now once we hit the songwriting thing we . . . When you write songs, you want to record. You don't need to have anyone tell you or poke you about it. You got your songs, you got to record them.
Paul: I'll tell you guys, I'll tell you something really, really great and interesting about on Rhythm Of The World and our rhythm section on it. Yeah, Johnny and Robby - man it would have been a great album. They got that rock 'n' roll 2/4 thing going on.
Susan: For sure
Paul: We have Mary Lasseigne who was originally from Tipado, but a New Orleans musician. Cowboy Mouth was one of her bands and stuff like that. And then Russ, OK? Russ Broussard, OK and man it that Louisiana thing. You have a rhythm section so unique to The Cowsills and different for The Cowsills that I think this album, I think that they were able to stretch, even stretch us and our musicality because of those two guys - a gal and a guy. Our rhythm section, I just really believe that's what has given this album a new . . .
Bob: It's a miracle
Susan: I do too And the thing of it is, I mean The Cowsills will always be at the core The Cowsills. So when we combine with our Louisiana roots, man I just think it stirred something magical up that resulted in the latest thing we're doing.
David: Are your shows these days, when you do shows now, do you do the new album and then when you get encores you do the old stuff? Or do you mix it in?
Susan: Oh no. Always old stuff. Always, forever.
Paul: We're a band in transition.
Bob: First of all . . .
Paul: We're a band in transition.
David: It's interesting that you say that Susan. You may not remember this, but you guys play my music fest - International Pop Overthrow - back in 1999 at the El Rey. And as I recall, your set was pretty much all of Global and then when the encores came that's when you did "The Rain, the Park and Other Things," "We Can Fly," and "Hair." So you didn't have any of the hits . . .
Susan: But that was intentional. That was a playing of Global. So if you're asking when we go out will we just perform Rhythm Of The World, I misunderstood. I thought you meant will we now not do old songs because . . .
David: No, no, no, not at all what I was asking
Susan: OK Copy that. Oh that's a Bob question. I'm just a girl sitting here.
Bob: No, Paul said it. We're in transition. That day when we played Global and did the hits as an encore, we intentionally, premeditatedly entered into the club scene of LA knowing this is original music. That they don't want to hear "The Boxer", OK. And we knew that going in and we wanted that gig. That's what we thrived off of back then. We have evolved into a more commercially accessible band that plays to many people. With many desires of knowing what they want us to do. Knowing that we can do many different things. Yes, we still do cover tunes. We've been doing it since Indian Ave in high school and grade school. Yes we still do the old hits. How can you not? But, yes, we have started to infiltrate the shows with four songs from Rhythm Of The World in the eventually successful transition to a Rhythm Of The World show. And then "The Rain, the Park" is probably an encore because we pulled off something Tony Bennett-ish.
Mark: If there was one track off of the new album - Rhythm Of The World - that you would want everybody to hear today - like right now - what's the track?
Bob: Uhhhhhh
Paul: Rhythm Of The World
Susan: Rhythm Of The World It's 'let's get our stuff together.' I mean . . . but I love "Nuclear Winter"
Mark: "Nuclear Winter" "Nuclear Winter" I was just going to say
Susan: For what purpose are we talking here.
Bob: That's a tough question. That's a tough question for me because I want to line all eleven children up and I'll say "Now you tell me which one the best kid."
David: I know
Mark: It is. It is. I got certain connections in certain places and I was thinking "Nuclear Winter" is perfect for certain areas as opposed to other things, but . . . The whole album is fantastic.
David: Are you still able to play "Indian Lake" live or is there a PC thing say nuh-uh?
Susan: Funny you should say that. Paulie?
Mark: It's Guardian Lake
Susan: What do you guys want it?
Paul: It's hard not to do it. It's hard not to do it when our fans are coming to hear it, OK? Look we were eight - ten, a bunch of little kids doing this stuff right? So, I don't know, it's . . .
David: Well back then, Paul, it was acceptable. There probably wasn't much objection most of the time. Now we're living in a different . . .
Susan: To be honest with you there hasn't been much objection to it at all. It's been incredibly minimal. So we're trying to modify that as we go but it's one of our hits.
Mark: There's only one part of the song towards the end where you do the woo-woo-woo thing
Bob: I understand. It's a unique situation where we are going to be held accountable for something we did when we were eight or nine years old. Now in life, people aren't held accountable for those things. And we all know why. This is something different where we are going to be called to task if we continue it, I think, kind of thing. "We know you were eight or nine years old but why are you continuing to." We get the whole complex situation. Itls a bunch of war hoops. It's not a big deal. But "Indian Lake" is a hit in our background that . . .
Susan: We're going to keep doing it, damn it.
Bob: Yep, yeah.
David: Do you ever do "Love, American Style"?
Bob: What's that?
David: Do you ever do "Love, American Style" live?
Susan: Every night
David: Oh wow! OK
Bob: And one more thing about "Indian Lake" We've had - cause we all know we play the Indian casinos, we'd had an Indian casino sit us down before a show and say, "Hey would you mind not doing the war hoops" and then we've had Indian casinos sit us down when we walk in "Indian Lake" is all over their video boards and . . . twice that happen.
Susan: They can't wait. They are woo-woo-wooing with us
David: That's wonderful actually.
Bob: We're going to roll with the flow of who's in front of us. Of what it's going to take to keep people happy. We're OK with that.
Susan: Not trying to hurt anybody's feelings, that's for sure.
David: No
Mark: You guys have had an incredible career. And I think you're very good with it. You loved what you did. It looks like you live in the now and let any regrets go in the past.
Susan: You got it.
Mark: Because we all here in the now and we're enjoying this.
Susan: We're here. We're the lucky ones.
Mark: And I'm so thankful for the moments I've had listening to your songs. And I look forward to many more moments with this new album. I'm going to catch you guys in December. I told Bob or Paul. I told Paul the Sellarsville Theatre up in Sellarsville PA with your Christmas show. I'm looking forward to that.
Bob: Coming to Sellarsville, yes!
Susan: (To David) You going in October in LA?
David: Yeah, absolutely
Bob: What's over in LA?
Susan: I don't know. I thought that's what he said.
David: Oh you're not . . . I thought I heard you were playing in LA in October
Bob: We are coming to town for some . . .
Paul: We'll be on Sirius XM
Bob: . . . and doing some sit down interviews, yeah. Yes, we will be doing that, but not a concert.
David: Oh not a concert. You're very welcome, whoever you are.
Susan: Somebody just said thanks Mark and David for hosting them.
David: You're very welcome.
Paul: We want everybody to go out there and buy Rhythm Of The World. This is a great album and it has a lot of messages. And because we're in our 70's and in our '60s, we're allowed to do message songs now because we're old enough to message.
Susan: We're allowed because we're grownups. It's all good stuff.
Mark: Now where is the best place to follow release right here on cowsill.com ?
Bob: We have Facebook. We have The Cowsills Facebook page, cowsill.com. Look we are easy to find out there. Everywhere out there. And just come and get to us. We're going to be out there. We're going on a Christmas show in Branson from November 1 to December 9th at the Andy Williams Moon River Theater. We're going to be playing every single night - Monday thru Saturday. And that should be a lot of fun. And we're on the Flower Power cruise in March - the whole week. We're going to be there three shows. We are out and about so chase us down.
David: Well, we will
Susan: Maybe we will be on Saturday Night Live with Christopher Walken. You just never know.
Mark: You never know
Bob: You do know, Mark. You nailed it. Now we do know.
Susan: I know that's happening. I know.
Mark: It's got to happen.
David: Who's your manager? Mark's available.
Susan: It's a done deal.
Mark: I only hope that when it happens I can sit in the audience and watch you with a big smile on my face.
Susan: Oh you're coming with us. You are.
Bob: We won't forget.
David: I know you guys are far from done, but when that day comes, what would you like your legacy to be?
Susan: Ambassadors of love, positivity, that this planet and life that we get given is a choice to do with it what you want. You can either make it or break it. Right guys?
Bob: Yep
Paul: That's right
Bob: And that we stayed true to - yes there's a clean copy of Cocaine Drain and Omnivore already has plans to re-release Cocaine Drain and Global -
Susan: And that we stayed what Bob?
Bob: What were we talking about though . . .
David: What was your answer to the legacy question?
Bob: Oh legacy - that we stayed true artistically, meaning we recorded the Cocaine Drain album, it never got released. OK fine out of step. We recorded Global, never got out. OK fine, great album, out of step. But now we're here with Rhythm Of The World in step. And this is going to change everything. And we are real thrilled to have this opportunity . . . I almost said "last" opportunity.
David: God no.
Susan: Last swing at the ball
Bob: This great opportunity. Look we have an executive producer, Rock Positano. He is part of our big equation why this is working. This is who you need. And he's who we got.
Susan: An amazing team
David: Rock Positano who was a former orthopedic surgeon?
Susan: You got it.
Bob: He's not former. He's the #1 orthopedic ankles/foot guy in New York. He cured Joe DiMaggio.
David: Joe DiMaggio, I read about that.
Susan: He's our guy, dude.
Bob: He's here to cure The Cowsills.
David: Holy Crap
Susan: Yeah, Holy Crap
David: That's amazing
Bob: I know.
David: Now I love Rock even more.
Susan: We're charmed. Our lives are charmed, y'all.
Mark: We got to love it. My friends this has been an absolutely wonderful hour with The Cowsills. Brand new album coming out. It drops - what September 30th?
Bob: Yes sir
Mark: Brand new album Rhythm Of The World Omnivore Recordings The Cowsills everyone. Find them online and everywhere. Go to see their shows. Buy this new album. Let's make some noise for The Cowsills.
Susan: Thank you guys so much
David: I echo Mark's remarks 100% and again I want to commend you for never resting on your laurels. Never becoming an oldies group like so many from that period have and still just creating. It's really astounding and we're really grateful for it.
Susan: Well it's an honor and a privilege so
David: Thank you guys so much for being here
Susan: Thank you guys!
Bob: We'll do it again.
Paul: Thank you
Susan: Later boys
Mark: See you in December
Bob: Alright guys, thank you.
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